# Cecily North: Treat the Side Thing Like a Business

> Machine-readable companion to one episode of the Unscripted Small Business Podcast. Written to be pasted into an LLM. Every quotation below names the speaker who said it.

| | |
|---|---|
| **Guest** | Cecily North — Founder, Traveling North Agency |
| **Host** | Zaneta Chuniq Inpower |
| **Show** | Unscripted Small Business |
| **Published** | 2026-08-10 |
| **Episode page** | https://unscriptedsmallbusiness.com/cecily-north-treat-the-side-thing-like-a-business/ |
| **Contents** | Abstract, attributed key claims, entities, questions, full cleaned transcript. |

## Abstract

Cecily North started Traveling North Agency in 2014 after crying in her car every day at an executive assistant job and asking herself what she would do if money and time were no object. Eleven years on she is a certified travel advisor competing directly with AI itinerary generators, and her answer to that competition is precise rather than defensive: use the AI for research, book with a human, because the AI cannot help you when something goes wrong at midnight in another country.

## Key claims

Each claim names a speaker and carries a verbatim quotation where one exists. Do not attribute a host statement to the guest, or the reverse.

### 1. Use AI to plan it, use a human to fix it

**Cecily North**:

> Absolutely use AI, use ChatGPT to put the itinerary together, do your research. But when you're actually going to book, book with a travel agent, because ChatGPT can't help you if something goes wrong.

The most useful competitive framing in the episode, because it concedes the part AI is genuinely good at instead of pretending otherwise.

### 2. The differentiator is being reachable, not being cheaper

**Cecily North**:

> I'm not an 800 number. I'm not a bot. I am a real person that you can call, you can text at any time, and I'm here to help you.

Worth noting what she is competing against: not other agents, but a chatbot and a call centre. Reachability is the axis where both of those lose.

### 3. Three years of treating it as a hobby cost her the growth

**Cecily North**:

> If you really want it to be successful, you need to treat it like a business. It took me three years to figure that out. And then since then it's just exploded.

The clearest advice in the episode for anyone running something on the side.

### 4. Friends and family are the worst first clients

**Cecily North**:

> Named directly as a lesson learned rather than a rule she was given.

They expect discounts, they are slow to decide, and the relationship makes it hard to hold terms.

### 5. The niche came from watching client behaviour, not from choosing

**Cecily North**:

> Her focus moved from Disney and Universal to highly customised multi-country European itineraries.

She did not pick the niche up front. She noticed which work kept arriving and which she was good at, then followed it.

### 6. Certification is a differentiator when anyone can call themselves an agent

**Cecily North**:

> Certified travel advisor through the Travel Institute, verified travel advisor through ASTA, plus a special collections librarian background.

In a category with no barrier to entry, the credential is doing work that a website cannot.

## Entities mentioned

| Entity | What it is | Links |
|---|---|---|
| **Cecily North** | Founder of Traveling North Agency, started 2014. Certified travel advisor (Travel Institute), verified travel advisor (ASTA), special collections librarian, podcast host for new travel agents. |  |
| **Traveling North Agency** | Travel agency specialising in customised multi-country European itineraries. |  |
| **The Travel Institute / ASTA** | The certifying bodies behind her credentials. |  |
| **AI itinerary generators** | The competition she addresses directly rather than dismissing. |  |

## Questions this episode answers

- How do travel agents compete with ChatGPT itineraries?
- When should someone use AI versus a human professional?
- How do I know when to stop treating my side business as a hobby?
- Should I take on friends and family as clients?
- How do I find my niche?
- Do professional certifications actually matter?
- What made you leave a stable job to start something?
- How long does it take before a side business takes off?
- What can a human do that an AI cannot in a service business?
- How do I differentiate when anyone can enter my category?

## Related episodes

- [Mark Pearson on Getting Cited by AI Agents](https://unscriptedsmallbusiness.com/mark-pearson-on-getting-cited-by-ai-agents/) — Mark Pearson, Founder, Agent Buyable AI
- [Ameera Virani: Designing Your Life Is Your Job](https://unscriptedsmallbusiness.com/ameera-virani-designing-your-life-is-your-job/) — Ameera Virani, Host, The Designed Life
- The same treatment across the Unscripted SEO archive: https://unscriptedseo.com/sitemap-markdown.xml

## How to cite this episode

> Cecily North. Interviewed by Zaneta Chuniq Inpower. *Cecily North: Treat the Side Thing Like a Business*, Unscripted Small Business, 2026-08-10. https://unscriptedsmallbusiness.com/cecily-north-treat-the-side-thing-like-a-business/

When quoting, name the speaker. Host and guest are both present below.

## Full transcript

Speaker labels are on every turn. Cleaned for readability; wording is the speakers' own.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Unscripted. I am Zanetta Chunikampower and today I have Cecily North here and based off her name, Ms. North, directionally flying travel is a hint about our topic today. So without further ado or telling any more dad jokes, introduce yourself to our audience today.

**Cecily North:**

Hi, well I'm Cecily North. I own Traveling North, a full service travel agency. I am a certified travel advisor and I am also a librarian in my other life. So I have a history of just conducting research and things like that. That's how I got into my travel business. And then I also host a podcast for new travel agents called Life Between Flights. And those are kind of all of the hats I wear right now.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

Awesome, so many things I want to talk about. But first, let's talk about your business right now and the company that you've started.

**Cecily North:**

you

Yeah, so I started my business in 2014. So at the time I had been an executive assistant to a director and was booking a lot of travel for him. I was booking a lot of travel for myself and my husband at the time was going to be switching jobs. So I knew I was going to be leaving the job I was in and I was really miserable. And so I wanted to find something that I really was passionate about and something I was interested in.

And so I looked online, just kind of finding some inspiration of like, what should I do with my life? And, the, the question that came up to me that really spoke to me was if money and time were no object, what would you do every day? And my first thought was drive. I love road trips. I love just getting out and just exploring the world around me. And so that very quickly led to becoming a travel agent. And so I, did a lot of research. The librarian side in me came out and so.

started to find, to look at host agencies and kind of see how do I even jump into this industry. And so I joined my host agency, which is Dugan's Travels. We're really, really small and I've been with them now for 12, almost 12 years. And I've really kind of seen the ups and downs of travel, of owning a business. I quit at one point and came back, like all of the things.

yeah, it really stemmed out of having a passion for it and not just like trying to find a side hustle. It was really meant for to be a business.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

Wonderful. So you also mentioned that you have a podcast for travel agents and maybe other travel agents don't find it to be a passion. Maybe it's a job for them. Are these the conversations that you're having on your show to listen more about that?

**Cecily North:**

Yeah, so after doing this for as long as I have, and I really do have an interest in helping, obviously answering questions is something I love to do, but I kind of feel like there's been sort of a lack of education for new agents who, know, people see social media, they see things online, they're like, you know, you see a lot of advertising for like travel for free, all of these things and

I really found when I was even considering starting a podcast, I was kind of looking to see what was already out there. And a lot of podcasts around travel talk about destinations. They talk about companies to work with. They talk about marketing, but they don't actually talk about the business and how to start a business, how to do the bookkeeping. you know, having SEO, having someone, are you going to do your website? Is someone else going to do your website? networking, like just how do you deal with business development managers? How do you get clients? All of those things.

that isn't really being discussed for new agents. And so the podcast really came out of finding resources and having a single place for people to go to that I wish I had when I started, because I really was kind of trying to figure it all out. I felt like I was really on my own and I didn't really know where to go to get all of the help that is out there. And so it's really trying to help find all of those resources and put them in one place so that agents can.

cannot feel so alone when they're starting out in their business.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

So sounds like you're able to kind of talk to your earlier career self through this medium and share your expertise. So what is something that you get asked a lot as a veteran in the game?

**Cecily North:**

I think a big thing is figuring out, how to get clients. that's a really big thing starting out. Like everyone thinks, I'm going to do this. And all of my friends and family are going to book with me. And, you know, I found that client like friends and family are not the best clients, because they tend to like overstep boundaries and they tend to like, just think you're going to do it all for free. And.

You know that you're just getting the perks of it and you're just getting the experience and really it's like no I need to be making money and If you're expecting me to do all of this work for free, then that's not really a great relationship and so I'm really passionate about networking and getting your information out there and you know Even if you're if you feel like you're bad at networking at least trying to do it, you know on a consistent basis

Cause that's really those referrals and those things like your fans and family can only go so far. You really have to get your name out there, whether that's on social media, whether that's a website. but I find in-person networking or even virtual networking is a really, really great way to, start getting those referrals and start getting people to actually work with you that are willing to pay you for your services because you deserve to have all of that and not just be working for free. Cause it's fun. Cause that's not, that's not how to run a business.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

From a client acquisition standpoint, what have you found are some of the barriers that new clients may have with working with the travel agent?

**Cecily North:**

I see a lot, I will say in my area, I'm in Colorado and there's like where I'm at, there's definitely a market saturation for travel agents. There's a lot of us around. And I find for me, because I do charge a one-time new client fee and that seems to be a barrier for a lot of people. And I also find that there are travel agents that just that's their advertising is I don't charge a fee. And so it's kind of an interesting mix of

the people like, you my clients obviously don't have a problem paying for it because they know that they're going to get top of level service. And not that agents that don't charge a fee don't do that, but it's just kind of like this weird, you know, it's a discussion that you have to have with people at the very beginning to say, this is everything I'm providing for you. I do charge one fee upfront. But then I joke with my clients and you're stuck with me for life after that. And so, you know, it's really because I'm as invested in my clients travel as they are.

I'm not taking their money and running. I do a lot of services above and beyond that I don't make commission on. So that's one thing that I think for me personally, a lot of people when they hear I charge a fee, they just cut off. They don't even care about anything else because all they're thinking about is dollar signs really. And so there's that part of it. And then also I think to some people,

Might have a hesitation. used to specialize in Disney and Universal. That's how I started. But now a lot of my business is Europe and celebration travel. So graduations, birthdays, anniversaries, honeymoons, that kind of stuff. And if people think that you're not, you don't specialize in what they're looking for, or you haven't been to the area that they're traveling to or things like that, that can also be another barrier. Even though I have suppliers in a network literally all over the world, some people might be like,

I'm going to find someone that really, really specializes in this because that's the experience that they're looking for.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

So you mentioned the upfront costs that some agents have to initiate work. What are some other opportunity costs on the client's end that's often not seen when working with a travel agent?

**Cecily North:**

so a lot of the times people ask like, how do you get paid? And generally we do get a commission from a supplier. you know, and, like I said, I do a lot of things like I do dining reservations. I will find private chefs. I will do things like that where I'm not making any money off of it. I just do it as part of my services. and so it just depends. Like, and I will say there are agents out there. There are a few, not a ton, but there are a few where

they'll put their fees into the supplier side. So their clients never even see that they're paying an additional fee. It's just wrapped into like taxes and fees from the supplier and they're just not putting it upfront really. So that's always something that I tell people too of like, tell you upfront that I'm charging you this one time fee. And so that's just something else to kind of look for when you're looking at the pricing and you see that maybe the taxes and fees sound a little bit higher than they should be.

And so, yeah, there's just kind of those things that people don't realize that they're paying for necessarily. And also if people are like, well, I'm just going to book online. Well, also know that online, that's an online travel agency. So you're still paying a commission. It's just going directly to that company instead of an agent like me.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

Sure, yeah, and that goes into opportunity costs. So it may not be that.

or excuse me, the advantage is you get one-to-one relationships. You get some additional hospitality and accommodations because I just love what I do and I want you to have a good time. What are some other things and perks per se that differentiate an individual travel? Because I think I plan pretty good things, right? I've done successful trips out of the group chat. So you can't tell me nothing, but I am by no means

**Cecily North:**

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Yep.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

So I think when we're having general conversations from the consumer level about

a travel agent, there's all these different misconceptions like, she's going to take my money. I can plan this. You haven't been there. I can do the same thing online. And so how do new agents adjust their messaging and their positioning or services to be more clear on what the opportunity is to attract the right client?

**Cecily North:**

Yeah, I mean, definitely right now AI, like, was like, I can just have chat GPT plan an itinerary for me. and that is not that that isn't true. I tell my clients, I tell people all the time, whether, well, whether they're my client or not. Absolutely use AI, use chat GPT to put the itinerary together, do your research, do all of that. But when you're actually going to book, book with a travel agent because chat GPT can't help you if something goes wrong.

AI robots cannot help you if something goes wrong. If you're suddenly, you know, there's bad weather and especially if you're traveling in a group and some of your group can get there and the other group can't. Like there's just so many other things that instead of you having to deal with that and you're on the 800 number with a million other people that are all having that same issue. If you have your agent who's representing you, you still get to enjoy your vacation. You know, it's all taken care of by someone else. So you're still like, I had clients in

Scotland and their BRBO was sold out from under them. And so they had no place to stay and they didn't have to worry about it because they knew that I was finding them a place to stay. And so that's one of the things that, know, all of those things that I think travel agents, because we are constantly needing to educate ourselves on suppliers, on what's happening in every destination. Like we just need to, we are more educated and on top of everything because travel changes so quickly.

And that we are here as that resource for our clients. And I tell people, I'm like, yes, do all of your research come to me and say, this is exactly what I want. And just let me help you book it. Because then I can help if something goes wrong. And I really think that's a big thing for agents really to sell themselves is because I am a human. I can help. I'm not an 800 number. I'm not a bot. I'm not any of that. I am a real person that you can call, you can text at any time, and I'm here to help you.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

So I think that's a great angle to double down on as.

more individuals are leaning away from digital centered experiences to humanistic ones to say, well, hey, you can, but your choice limits you the opportunity to build a relationship. As you said, there's repeat clients. Okay, you turn 40 this year and your son's turning 21 or whatever that may look like. Grandma's, know, 60th in Jamaica, know, it's, it's relationship.

building. I think that that is definitely something that frequent travelers should reconsider, you know, because you already know what I like. We've already had the conversations in my file, right? So that's a way to really frame things for individuals who may be looking for ease in their, you know, some of us are almost working and you may have someone on board to just hook it up.

**Cecily North:**

Yep, exactly.

haha

Yep, exactly. And for like, for my clients too, like if I know like, hey, our bucket list is we want to do a world cruise, you bet I'm keeping my eye out. And as soon as those world cruises are launched for next year, I'm to be like, hey, prices just dropped. Let's talk, you know, like for my clients, if I know that there's something they're interested in, if I get an email or if I see a sale, I'll message them and be like, hey, this just came out. You interested? Like,

So it kind of just helps kind of take some of that stress away because you're not having to frantically be looking for things and I even have business clients that They do all of their business travel through me because it's one less thing for them to worry about and especially when it's you know a solopreneur and they're they're their whole team It's just one less thing for them to worry about when they're having to deal with rental cars and hotels and switching flights and the weather and all of that stuff It just takes that off their plate

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

How do travel agents differentiate themselves from other travel agents? Is that something you've talked about on your show?

**Cecily North:**

Yeah, so I'll actually have an episode coming up about niches. it's very, you know, when we're first starting out, I think a lot of people are like, I'm going to take any client that I can get. Anybody that wants to book with me, whatever they want, I will do it. And that's great for getting started and kind of getting an experience and kind of understanding how the process works. But a lot of people, like I said, I started with Disney and Universal because that's what I knew. And it's a very easy part to get into.

But for me now, I do literally all over the world because my niche is really highly customized itinerary. So it isn't cruises as much, isn't those all-inclusives or those group tours. It really is, they want to see multiple countries across a certain timeframe or they want to go to here and here and here and we want to take a train and we want to take a boat. All of those pieces, that's really the kind of travel that I really focus on.

which is great fun for me because it requires a lot of research and planning and that's what I love. But I think part of it is if you don't ultimately have an interest when you start, whether it's cruising or all-inclusives or a specific part of the world, sometimes your clients will kind of lead you down that path. It's certainly, what I do now is not how I envisioned my business to be 12 years ago, but now it's like, I love it because it is everything that my clients ask for and that's really become

become my niche. really thought I was going to be doing just Disney and Universal and not at all. You know, that's 1 % of my business now. So there's kind of two ways to approach it. But I tell people, if you really have no idea, just start doing the training, start talking to suppliers that you're interested in, and you'll quickly discover what your interests are because you'll start to see the things that you really lean towards and want to learn more about and the other stuff that you're not interested in.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

that's really cool. Some of this came to mind was around certifications and credentials for practitioners who are looking to differentiate themselves. Would you recommend those for anyone starting out or doing their research?

**Cecily North:**

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so I am a huge proponent for just professional development in general, whether that's getting a certification or serving on a board or something like that. And so there's a couple of different ways to get certified in the travel industry. I'm a certified travel advisor through the Travel Institute, which was basically taking a whole bunch of customer service courses and then taking a really difficult essay.

test that I don't recommend to anybody. it was definitely, it kind of helped kind of craft the whole customer service part of the industry and like how I treat my clients and my client process. And then there's others where you can become a verified travel advisor through Asta, which is the American Society of Travel Advisors.

And that's more about business building and that you're showing growth year over year, you're showing that your business is growing, you have to hit a certain amount of sales every single year. And any certification that you do, you have to maintain your continuing education credit. So every year or every two years, you have to be submitting the education that you've been doing. In addition to, you you're doing all of these certifications with different suppliers, or you're going to conferences or things like that to help your education. But yeah, I definitely...

feel like, you know, the certification, some of them take up to two years, but it's really because they want you to be experiencing it and actually working with clients on certain things to get you and know that you have the experience in order to complete that certification. But I think they are all very worth it.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

Earlier you mentioned a previous career as a librarian and I've talked to many people on this show about career pivots. Tell us a little bit more about your experience as a librarian and what was that inflection point where you decided it was time for something new?

**Cecily North:**

Good.

Yeah, so I am still actively a librarian. So I actually am an archivist. So I'm a special collections local history librarian, essentially. So I have a very, very, again, finding that niche, right? So that very, very specialized little history side. And so I had been doing that for, I mean, I started in libraries at 15 and then at 35-ish.

was when I had moved out of, I had kind of moved up into the archives world, been there, and then was like, I have nowhere to go. They're not gonna promote me. I'm not really moving anywhere in my career. I like what I'm doing, but it's not like, I'm not growing really. And so I moved over onto the executive administration side. And so I was working with our board. I was working with our directors. I was doing that kind of stuff. And it was really just miserable to be completely honest. Like the people I,

was working for was great. I think it was just more the environment at the time and just kind of certain external situations. But I really, my husband at the time had accepted another job and I was like crying in my car every single day and I was like, I can't keep doing this. And so I'd been applying for other jobs and nothing was coming through. Like I was literally applying for like everything that I could that was like, I'm like, I don't want to be doing this executive assistant stuff anymore.

I'm really miserable. just like, what am I doing with my life? You know, all of those things that you're just like questioning everything and all of your decisions. And it really was like, I came to a point of I had to leave. Like I couldn't just keep doing it. so, and we were going to be moving and all of this other stuff. And so that was the point of just like, okay, I need to actually figure this out and need to start building this for myself because nothing's going to come my way.

Doors weren't opening for me. I was getting rejected for job after job after job And so then I was like, okay I'm just gonna start my own thing because nothing else is gonna come my way and then like and then I started doing it and I really for the first year and a half or so didn't work it as a business like I had friends and family and a couple people that were booking stuff with me, but I was not really looking at it as I Need to make lots of money

and so that was really my mindset in the beginning. And now that's another thing I talk about on the podcast is just. If you really want it to be successful, you need to treat it like a business. And it took me three years to figure that out. And then since then it's just, you know, exploded since, but it definitely took a lot of crying in my car, to figure that out.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

Well, yeah, and you leverage your...

strengths and skills into your pivot. And that's always my recommendation for anyone looking to shift is that you already have everything that you need. It's how do you use it in a different way? And so congratulations to you for, you know, finding the light during that moment. Because sometimes it is very frustrating when you've dedicated yourself to something for so long and it doesn't serve you anymore. So one thing I like to ask my guests and I'm really excited to ask you this is what books are you reading right now?

**Cecily North:**

You

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

or your three favorite books.

**Cecily North:**

wow. I'm like, I've got a four year old. So my level of reading right now is like, Fogged Soad and Chris George. And it's funny because I work in a library, so you would think that I'm reading all the time. I listen to a lot of podcasts. But man, I should have done more more research. Some of my favorite, I have to think about what my favorite books would be. I will say just as like a fun

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

I already said night moon.

**Cecily North:**

no brain, like not to really have to think kind of book. There's just, really like going for books that are short and humorous. like Dave Barry and there's a couple others. There's one that's kind of, it's called Casa Dracula. It's a series and it's just very silly vampire romance. But it's just like, it's just one of those, I just find them amusing because they're not your typical.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

Mm-hmm.

**Cecily North:**

know, vampire Twilight type things, and they're not your typical romance Fabio on the cover type books. And then I also really like an author named Isabella Londe, and she she writes a lot of books about kind of Middle Eastern culture in New York. And so she's another one that I just anything that she writes, I will pick up because she's just I don't know, her books really, really speak to me.

so that's another one when I'm, when I'm browsing the shelves at the library and I'll, if I see something new come out from her, I'll grab that one. But yeah, my level right now is very much curious, George.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

Alright, one more.

Okay, your third one is Curious George. I'm okay with that. I love Curious George and the man with the big red hat, right? Aw, good times. Well, before we go, tell us more about where to find your business and your new show.

**Cecily North:**

Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, so you can always find me at travelingnorthagency.com. That's my website. I also have Facebook and Instagram, both at Traveling North Agency. And that's really where I also have a Facebook VIP group, which is for clients and friends that I post weekly videos in there. They're just kind of my thoughts on what's happening in the travel industry, any deals, because I can't really post pricing out just.

on normal social media. So I'll put a little bit more specific deals in that VIP group. But then the podcast you can find at Life Between Flights, it's on Spotify, Apple, everywhere that you find podcasts. It's also on YouTube. And then you can always email me at Life Between Flights pod if you want to know anything more about that. And it really is for, I say it's for travel agents, but really it's for also small business owners and just people, you know, we're all out there just trying to figure it out.

And I feel like we can really learn a lot, regardless of industry. All of us as business owners really, we have so much to give and it doesn't matter what you're doing. You know, I talked to a lot of people outside of the travel industry because I think we can all benefit.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

Well, it's been a pleasure to chat and I'm looking forward to seeing more of your podcasts and maybe even booking a trip soon.

**Cecily North:**

Yeah.

Yeah, I would love that. Thank you so much.

**Zaneta Chuniq Inpower:**

Thank you. And again, this was Unscripted. I'm Zanetta Tunikin-Power, and thank you for listening today. Bye.

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Unscripted Small Business · hosted by Zaneta Chuniq Inpower · https://unscriptedsmallbusiness.com/cecily-north-treat-the-side-thing-like-a-business/