Jeremy Rivera: Hello, I’m Jeremy Rivera, your unscripted podcast host. I’m here with Denise Dubois. Why don’t you give yourself a quick introduction focusing on your experience and credentials that should make us trust you as an expert as we delve into your history, experience, and business.
Denise Dubois: Well, thank you for having me. My name is Denise Dubois. I have been in the spa industry since 1983. So many years working with the community and I’m also a practicing esthetician and product developer.
I founded Complexion Spa for Beauty and Wellness in 1987. And then we have two locations. And then in 2022, we founded DuBois Beauty. It’s a clean beauty brand. And I’m also the author of the book called Living Beautifully, which talks about wellness, longevity, and how really the spa lifestyle and living well is how we can age gracefully.
The Spa Lifestyle Philosophy
Jeremy Rivera: Tell me more about that concept of embracing a spa lifestyle. What does that entail and how does that dovetail with the businesses that you’ve developed?
Denise Dubois: Well, I am a big proponent of that. There’s no such thing as a one and done treatment that’s going to help you look or feel your best. It’s really a commitment to making everyday lifestyle choices that are going to give you the results that most of us crave—to look and feel our best.
There’s no miracle product. There’s no miracle treatment. It’s a commitment to every day choosing to live a healthier lifestyle from our food choices to the people we surround ourselves with, to what we do or do not do to take care of our skin, our eating habits, choosing to get up and make movement a part of your day.
So it’s really a lifestyle that we promote in the spa, but it’s not a one and done treatment. It’s something that is ongoing and that’s why I call it the spa lifestyle.
The Science of Aging: Genetics vs. Lifestyle
Jeremy Rivera: I think that makes sense because there’s kind of always that science fiction concept of, hey, if I could just take this pill, I could just push this button and boom, everything about my body and self is totally transformed. But that’s definitely a sci-fi concept.
Denise Dubois: If it was that easy, but unfortunately it’s not. There’s intrinsic aging, which is our genetic aging that we inherit from our grandparents and our parents. And then there’s extrinsic aging, which is those lifestyle choices.
And truly the symptoms that we see on our face that we call signs of aging—pigmentation, the loss of elasticity or the fine lines and wrinkles in our skin—that’s a result of external factors. So that’s considered extrinsic aging.
The American Academy of Dermatology suggests that really about 10% is genetics and about 90% is influenced by our everyday lifestyle choices. So we truly do have control more than we think over how we do age.
Jeremy Rivera: I think that’s an important thing to point out that it really is more in your control because it’s easy to look at these things and say, well, we all live such a stressful life now and everything’s moving so fast in this modern world and everything’s got additives and derivatives and it’s easy to place the blame somewhere else.
Denise Dubois: Processed foods, and then even personal care items that we use. The average woman uses about 13 personal care products on a daily basis. And if there’s harmful chemicals in those products, then that is going to have an impact on your health.
Because ingredients can be absorbed into the body and affect your endocrine system, carcinogenics, hormones, skin sensitizing. So we do need to be mindful of not only what we put into our body, but what we put onto our body.
From Paper Appointment Books to E-Commerce
Jeremy Rivera: That makes sense. I’m curious from an entrepreneurial perspective, as a long time business owner, what was the transition like as you went from a physical location in business and started to want to establish and create a brand, and I’m assuming that brand has products that are available through e-commerce. What was that like as far as a business challenge?
Denise Dubois: Well, it’s really interesting because we opened in 1987 and at that time we weren’t even using computers. So we had a paper appointment book and we had a Rolodex with our customers names. So we’re going back a very long time ago and the business has evolved over time as the world has changed and also as I’ve aged and have a greater and different appreciation for the aging process.
My brother actually helped me set up our very first website and we were able for the business to get complexions.com. So you can imagine that’s a very popular word to have complexions.com—we started very early when we developed our first website.
And it was a natural progression as things became more readily available to start a shopping cart for convenience for customers that they could order their products and have it shipped. And interesting enough, through our spas, one of our most popular products that people purchase online is our Tranquility Tea. It’s a blend of organic herbal tea that’s caffeine free. It’s an aerobatic blend and people love to gift it.
I think that evolving with the changing times—adding the shopping cart, first the website and then the shopping cart. And now we even have an app where our customers can schedule their appointments right from the convenience of their phones. So it’s definitely evolved as the world has.
Navigating the Marketing Maze
Jeremy Rivera: It’s good. Yeah, there’s a huge shift since the late 80s. It’s really an evolution to the point where businesses nowadays, they have such a huge smorgasbord of different platforms, websites, social media, different channels, vying for your attention as a business owner saying, ooh, pick me, spend your money here, I promise the moon and the world beyond. What are some of those moonshot moments where you were promised the moon by marketing or by a company looking to deliver X, Y, or Z, just didn’t really work out the way that they said that it might? Or something that you tried to do that was over the top or maybe out of reach at the time when it comes to technology or marketing?
Denise Dubois: I think that it’s very overwhelming because beauty and wellness is a very crowded space and there are so many people out there, choices that people can go to. So I think it does come down to getting yourself out there and having a personal connection with people that can relate to you and your brand and your philosophy on different things.
Because there’s so many platforms—there’s email, there’s meta advertising, there’s Google advertising. And actually I read today that now there’s even AI, you can purchase on using AI platforms now. So there’s just so many to choose from.
I think you’ve got to stay consistent and you have to stay current with all of the different very fast changing technology that I think you have to have a team of people to help you sort through all the clutter. And then for me, I think it was hard to get myself out there in front of the camera, because I’m not a person who’s always out there on social media.
So I think that’s been hard to kind of push myself out of my comfort zone to put yourself in front of the camera and jump in to that world because you have to so that people can make that personal connection with you and have a better understanding of your brand.
The Human Face of Marketing in an AI World
Jeremy Rivera: I think that’s true. Like even if you’re making agricultural machines, it seems like there is a requirement for the marketing to have a human face on it. I think perhaps that’s kind of the side effects and growing side effects of so many aspects of our lives being pushed towards having this AI tool.
In my conversations with other SEOers, with other digital marketers and other small business owners, there’s always kind of a twofold like, here’s how we’re using AI internally, but I really don’t trust how much it hallucinates. And there was literally a scientific paper that came out just last week that posits that fundamentally the way that current AI models work, which is language learning models, that you literally cannot trust LLMs to be honest because mathematically all they’re doing is guessing and they will bias towards giving an answer even if that’s made up from whole cloth what we call the hallucinations in marketing.
So I definitely agree that there’s a trend towards that humanization. Aside from putting yourself in video is that something that you’ve found in how you write the contents of your website, how you describe your products and go about getting feedback. Is that a feedback loop that you have to loop in people and their experiences with your products or with your spas to explore the market?
Denise Dubois: We do ask our clients to do some video testimonials. Our clients can have the opportunity to share their experience in a video. So we will ask them for those testimonials video and also reviews on Google or the social platforms because then people can hear from other guests of the spa what their experience has been.
And we also like to share before and after results so clients can see results. So I do think that word of mouth remains the number one lead generator. So we try to encourage more of that by asking our guests if they had a wonderful experience, would they please share it? And there’s quite a few willing people to do so. So we try to really nurture that stream of referrals.
The Business Behind the Marketing
Jeremy Rivera: I think that makes sense because often individual digital marketing experts tend to ignore that feedback loop of the—it’s really as much about the experience that people have within the business itself that drives a reflection of that credibility online. And you can create 17 fantastic blog posts about beauty and health and wellness, but if they come to your store and they aren’t greeted properly and they don’t get the right service at the right time and they walk away unhappy, then they’re not going to spread the word. They may even say negative things about it. I think remembering that there’s a business behind the marketing that drives that value is important.
Denise Dubois: Right. And we try to constantly train and retrain the team to fit the video presentation. You need to have that consistency. So we actually do have videos of both of our locations that shows what the guest experience looks like, so that people can start to visualize what their visit would look like by coming in.
And then when we work with our content creators here in the spa, we do a lot of video content. We did today, we had a video content day. So we like to get a lot of educational video, experiential video, showing services, showing the spa, showing the space. So I do think that’s really important to help make that connection.
Looking Ahead: 2026 Plans & The Membership Model
Jeremy Rivera: When you think about the next couple of quarters for your business, what’s coming up in 2026, what are you excited about? What are you looking forward to launching or diving into for your business this year?
Denise Dubois: Well we’re actually evolving over the course of 38 years. We have always evolved with the way the industry is evolving and the demands of our clients and actually updating our name Complexions for Beauty Wellness and Longevity so we’re adding the longevity piece and really focusing on our membership platform.
As a way for even socializing, we have an amenities membership where clients can come in and use our steam room, our sauna, enjoy the hydrotherapy tubs, those amenities. In a social setting, we have a relaxation lounge, we have healthy beverages and snacks, and you’re around like-minded individuals.
So we’re really hoping to grow our membership base not only amenities memberships, but also people who come in for services on a regular basis. Our memberships offer different levels of rewards for being a member. And we’re really hoping to grow that aspect of the business.
And then the whole mindset, we mentioned it earlier, that consistency is key. There’s no such thing as a one and done treatment to achieve a person’s beauty and wellness goals. It’s a lifestyle and memberships allow people to come regularly, save some money while doing so. And it encourages them to come in and use the spa so they can take away all the health benefits of de-stressing and lowering cortisol and heart, cardiovascular health, skin conditioning, healthy aging.
There’s so much that you can gain by coming in regularly, consistently. Educating the client over time about the importance of staying consistent to reach your health and wellness goals. So that’s why promoting that lifestyle through memberships to help people stay committed so that they truly can achieve their goals.
Two Locations Serving New York
Jeremy Rivera: And where are those spas located and what’s it been like working in those particular communities?
Denise Dubois: We have our first location, our mother ship is in Albany, New York, right on Wolf Road, which is very convenient for our clients to get to off of the Northway and the Thruway.
And then our second location, which we opened in 2014, is located in Saratoga Springs, where the Saratoga racetrack is horse racing, 150 years of history. It’s also known as the queen of spas, Saratoga, because of the mineral water and the springs there, there’s a lot of health benefits to taking the waters. So we do have our hydrotherapy tubs in that location.
So the spring water was used in our skincare line, DuBois Beauty, that we formulated to be a clean beauty brand to take that health and wellness another step further by having a clean beauty brand. So Albany, New York is our first location and then Saratoga Springs is the second location.
Jeremy Rivera: Are there any plans for a third or reaching out to a further location beyond or is it more of a focus on that online brand and beauty products approach?
Denise Dubois: I think honestly I don’t see us this year expanding with another location. I think we don’t want to do more—we want to do it, we don’t want to stretch ourselves too thin by doing another location at this time. I’d rather focus on constantly improving the experience for our guests that we have and focus on growing and expanding our skin care company.
Because I do think we have about 15 SKUs right now, products, that I think we have some plans to add a few more products to that, to personalize facials and skincare even further. So I think focusing our growth there and perfecting the wellness experience in-house at this pause.
Advice for Aspiring Spa & Wellness Entrepreneurs
Jeremy Rivera: As to kind of round out the interview, from your experience as a business owner, what advice would you have to potential entrepreneurs who are looking either at the beauty space or looking at the spa and health and wellness space? Something that’s been true throughout your journey that you think they should know.
Denise Dubois: Well, consistency is key, right? Clients want consistency. If they come to your spa and they experience a particular service and they really enjoyed it, they want to be able to come back and experience it again in the same way.
So I think training your staff for consistency of quality is very important, but you also have to have systems in place so that as soon as the guest chooses to call our business, that we have systems in place every step of the way of the client journey so that their experience is consistent and consistently good.
And if you do make mistakes and you get complaints, we have a choice when we get a complaint. What is the lesson to learn is what I always tell our staff when we have an opportunity. Nobody likes to get a complaint, but when you do get a complaint, what is the takeaway? What is the lesson?
We could choose to make excuses or we could choose to come up with a solution to prevent it from happening again. So constructive feedback can be what makes the difference between you growing and being the best you can be or choosing to just make excuses about why something happened.
So I think to answer your question, you have to have systems that are going to equal consistency of quality, right? From the phone call to the guest arrival to the departure. So consistency of quality and systems that everyone can follow. You have to have the entire team consistent with those systems, constant training and training, training, training, training, and then asking for constructive feedback and learning from it and coming up with solutions.
That’s how you continue to grow and do better, is listening to the people.
Jeremy Rivera: Fantastic. Thank you so much for your time, Ms. Dubois.
Denise Dubois: My pleasure. Enjoyed our conversation.
Best Quotes
“The American Academy of Dermatology suggests that really about 10% is genetics and about 90% is influenced by our everyday lifestyle choices. So we truly do have control more than we think over how we do age.”
“We do need to be mindful of not only what we put into our body, but what we put onto our body.”
“Word of mouth remains the number one lead generator.”
“Consistency is key. There’s no such thing as a one and done treatment to achieve a person’s beauty and wellness goals.”
“Constructive feedback can be what makes the difference between you growing and being the best you can be or choosing to just make excuses about why something happened.”
Key Takeaways
- The 90/10 Rule of Aging: Only 10% of how we age is determined by genetics, while 90% is influenced by lifestyle choices including diet, personal care products, stress management, and consistent skincare routines.
- Systems Create Consistency: Successful spa businesses require documented systems for every touchpoint in the customer journey—from the initial phone call through departure—to ensure consistently excellent experiences that generate word-of-mouth referrals.
- Membership Models Drive Wellness: Subscription-based memberships encourage clients to adopt the “spa lifestyle” by making regular visits financially accessible and socially engaging, which leads to better long-term health outcomes and business sustainability.
- Clean Beauty Requires Education: The average woman uses 13 personal care products daily, making it crucial to educate customers about ingredient safety and the importance of choosing clean beauty products that won’t disrupt hormones or cause other health issues.
- Embrace Complaints as Learning Opportunities: When customer complaints arise, businesses must choose between making excuses or developing solutions—the latter approach transforms negative feedback into operational improvements that prevent future issues.
This interview was originally featured on Unscripted Small Business, brought to you by Permacast Walls.